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	<title>Comments on: Page by Page: Gary Gygax’s DMG Part 7</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/</link>
	<description>A blog about Pathfinder, or any other tabletop RPG which strikes my fancy</description>
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		<title>By: MS</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-102575</link>
		<dc:creator>MS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2012 17:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-102575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, and I have to speak up for the attack matrices. How those constitute bad game design is beyond me. These games have enough crunch in them, much of which I don&#039;t need to be focusing on when trying to run an exciting combat. That goes along with the hate on AoO and feat bloat. All of it bogs the game down, and at worst discourages improvisation. 
    As a game aid, the matrices on a DM screen are quick and efficient.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and I have to speak up for the attack matrices. How those constitute bad game design is beyond me. These games have enough crunch in them, much of which I don&#8217;t need to be focusing on when trying to run an exciting combat. That goes along with the hate on AoO and feat bloat. All of it bogs the game down, and at worst discourages improvisation.<br />
    As a game aid, the matrices on a DM screen are quick and efficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk R.</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-33157</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-33157</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What R.J. Thompson said. 

My problem with 3e style AoO is not the existence of a free attack but the implementation and rules-bloat that comes with it. (And the implied reliance on a grid.)

You turn away from your foe? Free attack! That&#039;s simple, intuitive, and quickly resolved.
(Plus: You do something clever to divert your foe? DM ruling, probably no free attack.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What R.J. Thompson said. </p>
<p>My problem with 3e style AoO is not the existence of a free attack but the implementation and rules-bloat that comes with it. (And the implied reliance on a grid.)</p>
<p>You turn away from your foe? Free attack! That&#8217;s simple, intuitive, and quickly resolved.<br />
(Plus: You do something clever to divert your foe? DM ruling, probably no free attack.)</p>
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		<title>By: R.J. Thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-33020</link>
		<dc:creator>R.J. Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-33020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding attacks of oppurtunity, I think you are missing the bitch that OSR folks have with them.  This one attack for withdraw is totally acceptable.  It is the other long list that began in 3rd edition that gets under peoples skin.  Not to mention that it made it possible to get a plethora of such attacks in a round (which is detailed in 3E as 6 seconds.)  A rouge with a 20 Dex (not impossible and actually likely in that edition) with the proper feat can get 6 such attacks in a round, on top of his/her normal set of actions (all in 6 seconds.)  Therein lies the problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding attacks of oppurtunity, I think you are missing the bitch that OSR folks have with them.  This one attack for withdraw is totally acceptable.  It is the other long list that began in 3rd edition that gets under peoples skin.  Not to mention that it made it possible to get a plethora of such attacks in a round (which is detailed in 3E as 6 seconds.)  A rouge with a 20 Dex (not impossible and actually likely in that edition) with the proper feat can get 6 such attacks in a round, on top of his/her normal set of actions (all in 6 seconds.)  Therein lies the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-33003</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-33003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is the difference between a 6’6″ humanoid and a 6’8″ humanoid?

 About two inches. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the difference between a 6’6″ humanoid and a 6’8″ humanoid?</p>
<p> About two inches. </p>
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		<title>By: -C</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-32965</link>
		<dc:creator>-C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2012 08:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-32965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;&lt;i&gt;No. I’m sorry, Gary. I love you, but that’s dickish GMing. To simplify the advice being given here: sometimes players will not understand the limitations of an action. If that happens, act as though they can do what they said they want to do, then pull the rug out from under them on their next turn&lt;/i&gt;.&quot;

It was a different time and people didn&#039;t understand what they were playing.

Imagine Gary at the head of a table. Imagine 8 or 10 players looking at him. He asks for their actions. One of the players replies:

&quot;I run up to him and cut both his legs then flip over the other person here and zap the troll with my wand of lighting, then drink my potion of flight and shoot darts at the rest of the people in the room!&quot;

This is the third time this has happened this combat. Instead of taking the time to patiently explaining to new players that they simply must select one action, Gary takes the classic approach and just makes it happen for the player! This way they are not instructed by lecture, but experience. They know what they say they are doing is what they are doing. It also lets players know to think about what they are doing before they do it. It lets advanced players know they can use this to save time and eliminates the behavior from the new players.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>No. I’m sorry, Gary. I love you, but that’s dickish GMing. To simplify the advice being given here: sometimes players will not understand the limitations of an action. If that happens, act as though they can do what they said they want to do, then pull the rug out from under them on their next turn</i>.&#8221;</p>
<p>It was a different time and people didn&#8217;t understand what they were playing.</p>
<p>Imagine Gary at the head of a table. Imagine 8 or 10 players looking at him. He asks for their actions. One of the players replies:</p>
<p>&#8220;I run up to him and cut both his legs then flip over the other person here and zap the troll with my wand of lighting, then drink my potion of flight and shoot darts at the rest of the people in the room!&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the third time this has happened this combat. Instead of taking the time to patiently explaining to new players that they simply must select one action, Gary takes the classic approach and just makes it happen for the player! This way they are not instructed by lecture, but experience. They know what they say they are doing is what they are doing. It also lets players know to think about what they are doing before they do it. It lets advanced players know they can use this to save time and eliminates the behavior from the new players.</p>
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		<title>By: iDungeonCrawl</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-32943</link>
		<dc:creator>iDungeonCrawl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2012 03:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-32943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On actions during combat, I think you are misunderstanding. The way that I read the passage, the DM is to note down the actions the player has requested to take and play them out over the appropriate number of rounds, even though the player has stated them all in a single round. I agree that it&#039;s dickish to not inform the player ahead of time that their requested actions will take more rounds than one, but it does appear that it would help move the game along rather than having to divide a complex maneuver over multiple rounds and spell outreach round&#039;s action.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On actions during combat, I think you are misunderstanding. The way that I read the passage, the DM is to note down the actions the player has requested to take and play them out over the appropriate number of rounds, even though the player has stated them all in a single round. I agree that it&#8217;s dickish to not inform the player ahead of time that their requested actions will take more rounds than one, but it does appear that it would help move the game along rather than having to divide a complex maneuver over multiple rounds and spell outreach round&#8217;s action.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-32934</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2012 01:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-32934</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve never found the need for anything more complicated than &quot;you do nonlethal damage&quot; when in unarmed combat (unless you are a monk or martial arts type character, in which case you can do lethal damage if desired).

The abstract combat system really doesn&#039;t need anything else. (Maneuvers like grabs can, of course, be handled by ruling if desired, just like for weapon combat.) I&#039;ve never really understood the tendency of D&amp;D people to create baroque subsystems for unarmed combat.

I think you will find &quot;disengage from combat attacks&quot; in many old school games (they&#039;re pretty common, and as you point out are a limited for of opportunity attack). I have already by habit used them once or twice in Pahvelorn, though I didn&#039;t use any special terminology so it might not have been noticed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never found the need for anything more complicated than &#8220;you do nonlethal damage&#8221; when in unarmed combat (unless you are a monk or martial arts type character, in which case you can do lethal damage if desired).</p>
<p>The abstract combat system really doesn&#8217;t need anything else. (Maneuvers like grabs can, of course, be handled by ruling if desired, just like for weapon combat.) I&#8217;ve never really understood the tendency of D&amp;D people to create baroque subsystems for unarmed combat.</p>
<p>I think you will find &#8220;disengage from combat attacks&#8221; in many old school games (they&#8217;re pretty common, and as you point out are a limited for of opportunity attack). I have already by habit used them once or twice in Pahvelorn, though I didn&#8217;t use any special terminology so it might not have been noticed.</p>
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		<title>By: Heikki HAllamaa</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-32926</link>
		<dc:creator>Heikki HAllamaa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2012 23:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-32926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They could be using this sort of contraption: http://mikemonaco.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/lanternshieldfront1.jpg
That shield has a gauntlet with knuckle spikes, a retractable blade, a spike on the boss and a built-in lantern.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They could be using this sort of contraption: <a href="http://mikemonaco.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/lanternshieldfront1.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://mikemonaco.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/lanternshieldfront1.jpg</a><br />
That shield has a gauntlet with knuckle spikes, a retractable blade, a spike on the boss and a built-in lantern.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex J.</title>
		<link>http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/08/26/page-by-page-gary-gygaxs-dmg-part-7/#comment-32912</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2012 19:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.paperspencils.com/?p=2565#comment-32912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A player choosing to double wield is not giving up a shield if he didn&#039;t start with one in the first place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A player choosing to double wield is not giving up a shield if he didn&#8217;t start with one in the first place.</p>
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